Meet
David Vanian
Frontman
for The Damned and co-vocalist for final Doctors' tour in 1978
(Interviewed
16/01/02)
I heard that before The Damned you were
a regular face at Doctors' shows?
Well,
years ago, before The Damned started, I saw them many times
around London and Hertfordshire, Watford, I can't remember the
places I saw them at, but they were always a good band to watch,
I had their albums.They were that weird period that was kind
of - there was a little bit of Ziggy Stardust in them, even
though Bowie had long since abandoned all that. And they were
too late for glam and not quite in the right place when punk
erupted, but somehow they managed to continue for quite a while
What
kind of stage were you at when you first saw them, did you know
you wanted to be in a band?
At
that point - I think when I first saw them, probably not. I
never intended to be in a group from the beginning, it was just
that I realised... oh, I probably did actually, when I think
about it, that would have been around 72, 73, 74? It was definitely
a couple of years previously, I'm trying to think when I saw
the New York Dolls... there was a period of time where the bands
I saw were things like... I think it was late 74. That was a
weird time as well, 'cause there were things like Ducks Deluxe
that happened...
Sort
of pub rock stuff?
Yeah,
the guy came out with this album cover, with the flaming guitar
with the skull, for a while (Ducks Deluxe) were kind of flirting
with the glam thing themselves, which was probably from the
record company's point of view... but yeah, I didn't like them
much.
But
I remember, I really liked the violin in the band, the kind
of gypsy violin. He (Blitz) vanished, he went back to being
an architect didn't he?
I've
heard some rumours, either that or a draughtsman or a graphic
designer, I'm not absolutely sure...
I
remember him telling me a story where he backpacked across europe
and he'd camped out a few times in these settlements with gypsies,
Romany gypsies, and picked up a few (licks), because you know,
their music is handed down from generation to generation, it's
not written down. If you listen, when he used to play, improvising,
you'd hear very Romany type phrases, apparently he used to pick
up a lot of things backpacking across Europe, these amazing
violinists you'd never hear about, just playing for their own
- he had classical training which is also unusual, 'cause most
classically trained, if they don't break out, they never actually
improvise, it's very rare; they have to stay with the written
page.
But
yeah, I got friendly with Richard, for quite a while, he used
to come to the early Damned shows, which was quite weird, cause
he'd spotted me in the audience a few times, for the time I
was a bit outrageous-looking so I stuck out, I had a few friends
that used to come with me now and again, we were all kind of
'the strange crew'... because of that he noticed, I used to
end up backstage chatting, we got on really well and became
friends
What
kind of kids were getting into the Doctors?
It
was, again, a lot of people who were probably following on from
Bowie, and a lot of their audience were purely their own I think.
They had a very mixed (crowd), people on different levels...
Were
there other future punk figures checking them out at the same
time as you?
Not
really, not that I saw, a lot of their audience were these kind
of very straight people who dressed up when they went out, they
went back to their normal jobs as secretaries or whatever during
the week and they would come out, get glammed up for the Doctors
gigs, it was more straight people who were already kind of working.
There wasn't so many - really none of the people I'd known in
sort of 75/76 when I went on to do The Damned were into the
Doctors, they didn't really know who they were, you know. But
obviously at that point in time they got loads of press in the
papers, their albums were doing quite well.
I
think they had fairly hefty publicists behind them, which would
have caused some punk types to be suspicious of their motives...
The
thing about them though, although they were out of time with
punk, the punks did like them because they saw them as being
sort of outsiders, so I thought that was good. But unfortunately
it never really worked for me, by the time I went on tour with
them the band were really ready to split up. I think it was
Richard's last gasp at kind of doing something (with the Doctors).
This
would have been after the Damned's 'Music for Pleasure' album,
what caused that lineup of the band to split?
Well
basically, there were things that happened in the band, Brian
had left, and Richard said 'Well, I've got this tour, why don't
you do this with me?' I thought that'd be good fun. I was going
to be doing the Damned but there was a big hole there I could
fill, it seemed like a lot of fun, it wasn't that taxing, basically
we did a two part set, they did part and half way through, I'd
come on as second vocalist and we'd do lead vocals together
for the next half.
I
gather that previously to that, you'd done encores with the
Doctors while Blitz was still with them?
That's
right, and in fact Richard jumped up onstage at a couple of
Damned shows and did the same thing. It was very much, sort
of, we enjoyed each other's company, it just naturally happened
So
it wasn't much of a formal arrangement with you and them?
Well,
it was obvious that the band at that point were struggling with
whatever personal problems they had. I didn't... although I
knew them all, I only knew Richard really well, the others were
kind of like... there was obviously a lot of tension there at
that point.
Did
you get any insight into what the problems were within the band?
No,
it was obviously something that, you know, it may have just
been that, I think Urban wanted to get back to something else,
they had been together quite a long time.
I
understand you wrote a song with Richard, Don't Panic England?
No,
what happened was TV Smith wrote the song, and the only problem
was, it was way out of my range, it was more suited to someone
else with a falsetto I think. And it wasn't very good, I mean,
the song could have been approached better. So that was all
we ever did together, and that was it, we parted ways, I went
off with the Damned and Richard went off and did various bits
and pieces, and eventually ended up, I've seen him on TV as
a butler in this weird German show! I haven't seen him for quite
a few years.
How
did audiences react to you with the Doctors?
They
liked it I think, I think it went down pretty well, it was interesting
and obviously some of the Damned punters turned up. That was
a bit of a weird mix. It was quite strange, it was over so quickly,
you know? It wasn't exactly a massive tour. It was great fun,
the whole stage would fill with smoke and dry ice, you'd hear
another voice coming up in the vocals and that'd be me. I'd
wander on stage, like Dirk Bogarde or something, in a raincoat.
Oh
yeah, I've got a publicity pic with you in that...
We
did a very funny one, 'cause he was so ridiculously tall, I
did one where I actually got on my knees in the picture, so
I'm half his size, even smaller!
So
it wasn't something that could've developed further?
At
that point of time, I dunno if it ever was going to. It could
have, but at that point in time I wasn't writing songs. So from
a songwriting point of view, in fact I started, but the Damned
in its very early stages was very much Brian, a hierarchy where
Brian wouldn't want anyone else to write songs, it was very
much his show, and it wasn't until our third album that I started
writing and it built up from then on. So, it's quite possible
if things had been different we would have gone on and written
something together. I had written things on the harmonium at
that point, but it was more viewed as a kind of stopgap for
both of us.
What
was your morale like at that point, it must have seemed like
the momentum had gone out of the punk movement around that time?
Not
really, because to me, it was just another thing I was doing...
punk is a weird thing, 'cause everything thinks its some explosion
of thought, when a lot of the time you just went with whatever
was happening, it was like... a ridiculous ride! And although
we were changing things and making a point, a lot of us didn't
have time to sit back and analyse and say 'we're doing this
because...' it was more of a case of, you just went out and
did it. So to me, being on the road with the Damned and the
next week learning an album's worth of material and going out
with the Doctors seemed great, and also, it was something different.
And I'd always liked them, so it wasn't as if I was asked to
do something I didn't want to do,
Did
you take part in the final show, at the Music Machine?
I
must have done... it's terrible isn't it, I just (can't recall)...
well I did all that last tour, so we must have done the major
ones together. See, it wasn't like it was a big amazing event
or anything, it was just 'a show'. And of course at that point,
although there was tension, I didn't know it was going to be
the end, everyone was playing their cards very close to their
chests.
So
you didn't really stay in touch with Richard after that?
What
happened was, I moved and he moved, and then we did lose touch.
And I think in a way, because the Damned started up again, he
felt, there was a little bit of, not so much sour grapes, but
I think he may have felt we should have stayed together longer,
but the Damned came back better than ever. Basically I had to
eat then! And so I couldn't hang around, I had to make decisions
quickly and I think there was a little bit of, 'oh well, screw
Vanian then!' you know. Which I'd imagine didn't last for long,
but it was one of those things. And so, because I was working
and touring all around the world, we just never ran into each
other again.
So
The Damned bounced back pretty quickly after that?
Yeah,
I think we were working on ideas even when I was with the Doctors.
'Cause
I heard you were The Doomed for a couple of weeks?
Well
that was because, we didn't have a permanent bass player and
all that stuff, and also I wanted to see if it'd work I guess,
and The Doomed was when Lemmy played bass. So, we've had all
kinds of names, the School Bullies was another one, we'd do
our little secret gigs. That was what that was about, we didn't
have a permanent bass player, and 'The Doomed' was just for
a joke really.
So
from there it was pretty quickly into 'Machine Gun Etiquette'?
Yeah,
and of course once that happened we never looked back, for a
couple of years it really took off. Altough we ended up in huge
legal wrangles and god knows what else, the record company saying,
'well, that's the contract, that's where we are and you can't
record again until the contract runs its course'. Hanging over
from Chiswick days, we ended up, we couldn't record, we could
tour. Which was a terrible thing for us really, because we were
touring, we were selling out everywhere we went, people were
lining up down the street, sometimes they were breaking into
the venues to get in... this is quite a few years later, this
is after Machine Gun Etiquette, before Strawberries, 'cause
we went to Bronze with Strawberries. It was hard because we
could only play, not record at that point. It was a bad time,
If we'd had a record out we'd have done a hell of a lot better..
Must've
been between the Black Album and Strawberries...
Yeah,
which was very frustrating and also, a strange time press-wise
for us, because the press had decided they didn't want The Damned
to be around anymore, you had that so-called politically aware
journalism that suddenly turned up, 'we're more important than
the groups, so once the group's had five minutes we want to
smash them to pieces', kind of thing. And you had people like
Gary Bushell... Tony Parsons was the worst though. He actually
reviewed our first album, raved about it, he loved the band
but when we weren't the idealistic political kind of Che Guevaras
that he wanted us to be, he suddenly took a sort of personal
vendetta, he would write reviews about other bands and just
put in, 'Well, at least it's not The Damned!' sort of thing.
So it was a hard couple of years, but we managed to get through
it.
And
of course, you're still going strong now!
Certainly
are! Probably better than ever!
Tell
me about the current Damned then, there's a new album, Grave
Disorder...
The
album's on Nitro, it's Dexter Holland's baby, it's his label
he's started, from money he made from the Offspring, probably.
It's a great album, we actually recorded it in America, for
lots of reasons, the producer was there, the record company
was there, and it actually made more sense because financially
it would have cost twice as much in England than it would cost
to make it in America. And we figured it would be nice to do
it somewhere else, we'd never actually, except for Denmark,
we'd never recorded an album anywhere but England.
So
where in the States was it?
It
sounds nice, but it's Burbank, it wasn't all palm trees, it's
an industrial area! Its just outside Hollywood
Is
that Patricia's (Morrison, Damned bassist) home area?
No,
she's from Whittier, which is a suburb of California, famous
for, for the fifties, all the cruising, hotrods and stuff. It's
a quaker town, which is unlike anywhere else in California I
can tell you! You always see it in films, Back to the Future
and stuff like that..
But,
David Bianco, the producer, he's just, in the last year, been
working with things like Johnny Cash and stuff, so, he seemed
like a good choice. I didn't realise till we got to the studio,
Captain was raving about his production, I wasn't so sure -
simply because what I'd been sent was not-very-good bands. And
it was a delight working with him, we did it in a fairly live
situation, with overdubs obviously, but not many. And we got
a sound that kept our essential energy and liveness... it was
joy working on it, it was a fast pace, done in 30 days. Everything's
gone really well in recent time. At the moment we're off to
America again in March/April, eight weeks supporting Rob Zombie
of all people, so that'll be interesting, it came up and I thought
it'd be a good thing to do, because we're obviously playing
to an interesting crowd, trying to steal the crowd off him!
But we're just going to be 'the band', and he's going to be
'the band with lights, smoke, robots, go-go dancers' and god
knows what else he brings, but I think we can do it!
Judging
by the Hackney gig (December '01), there's a lot of interest
out there...
The
Ocean, that's a great venue actually, nice place to play. That
was a fun night for us - with our go-go dancing Santas!
(As
we're concluding the interview, David's thoughts return to Doctors
days...)
I
actually wonder what happened to some of those people, I mean,
I kind of lost their names with time, but people who 'd go,
I would recognise them, there was a blonde girl, I can't remember
her name, always used to wear a coloured raincoat, things like
that, who you just saw...
(Kid)
was always a person who was a bit larger than life, that's for
sure! He was a great dinner party person!
For
more on The Damned, see
www.officialdamned.com
Many
thanks to David Vanian and to Penny Brignell
return
to Meet the Doctors
